The damage of critical hits is equal only if you crit using the Rapier as much as you crit using the Dagger. Both weapons deal out the same damage dice, can be finessed, are one-handed, and the rogue is proficient with both. Welcome to the Black Citadel. The 5e Rapier and the Dual Wield Dagger can be a great option. The damage on the die won't matter much over time. Press J to jump to the feed. Hey, Bro, I heard you like to sword, so I got you a sword so you can sword while you sword.. DnDBeyond just canceled their Twitch stream that was Wizards knew this would happen back in 2004. comments aren't for partial answers, either. Shortswords vs Rapiers in DnD 5e: Which is Best? However, the shortsword has the light property while the rapier does not. The moral dilemma fried their logical/emotional algorithm and forced them to make a choice. Because the rapier has the finesse property, you can use your dexterity modifier for this. Also, it gives you two different attacks, so two Sneak Attack chances have a slightly shorter expiry time. It is up to what kind of enemies you think you will be facing. The tone of the DnDBeyond statement is actual garbage. Copyright 2020 - 2023 Sportsmanist Inc. Can you dual-wield a rapier and a shortsword? Rapier: Great choice because it's 1d8+DEX and Finesse. Two shortswords, on the other hand, are 7gp cheaper than the dagger/rapier combo. The fact you can get weapon focus( shortsword ) and it covers both your main and off hand weapon makes it an even more attractive option to use a pair of shortswords. However, the longsword has a versatile property, which means that you can use it with two hands, increasing its damage (1d10 slashing damage). I forgot about that additional penalty if your off-hand weapon isn't light. Inferior to a Light Crossbow in every way until you get Bracers of Archery and it now does 1d6+2+DEX or magical short bows are more common then magical crossbows in modules. It wasn't very good or convincing. Overall, the rapier is a good weapon dealing 1d8 piercing damage. There are only six classes that have the rapier proficiency, namely: Most of these classes are more into weapon fighting than magic spells, except for the Bard. So no, you cannot dual wield unless you have the Dual Wielder achievement. You cant dual wield rapiers without the dual wielding feat. Two-weapon fighting is overrated. Broken arm.1d6+DE with a terrible range of 30' means it's more or less a melee weapon. How to Make BETTER MUNDANE WEAPONS for 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons, 5. If you have a 50% chance of hitting something, your average weapon damage with a 5e rapier is 2.25 and your average sneak attack damage at level 3 is 3.5. See that? At level 5 with no magic Items against 16 AC target, your dexterity modifier at +4: Long Bow attack with Elvin Advantage = 18.4 Average Damage per round, Long Bow attack without Elvin Advantage = 12.2 Average Damage per round, 2 Short Swords normal attack = 17.8 Average Damage per round. Go and have fun! When playing a sword wielding spellcaster, there are three things to consider. When you use the attack action, you can only use ONE of the two weapons; you cannot use both. For the same damage that penalty isnt worth it. Perhaps you're climbing a rope with a dagger clenched in your teeth. Also because of this reason, most characters won't be able to do it. When picking a starting weapon, classes usually have a choice to choose from. Not normally. If Gladius protected Dr. Hargraves daughter, their programming would have failed, but in saving her daughter she would be saving Dr. Hargrave from her worst fear. i've been using the rapier to get 1 shot in and the bonus action to bounce outta there, i think im gunna try and get some shortswords so i can have that two weapon fighting opportunity instead of the slightly higher damage. A character can use a short sword to make attacks even while holding another one-handed weapon in the other hand, and can use the other one-handed weapon to make attacks even if it isn't an off-hand weapon. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Dagger is handy if you want to be able to throw your weapon. This is strictly better than if you had used your Attack action on the Shortsword. If your attack lands, you again add in the said ability modifier. It's not even close at this low a level. Item Type. When jealousy got the better of her rivals, Dr. Hargrave and her familys lives were threatened, so she activated a proto-warforged golem named Gladius and assigned them as her personal guardian. Rapiers varies in shape, length, breadth, and hilt arrangement without a doubt. Each of these functions requires a separate hand to operate effectively. save. But both rapiers and shortswords are, IIRC, piercing, not slashing, weapons. Drawing a second weapon as part of an attack? The damage difference is not much, meaning that your characters flavor will make the ultimate decision in this debate for most casual players who think simply about these things. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Since you get 1 free "draw" a turn, if you can't make it into melee, you can draw and throw a dagger 20' instead of not attacking. What do you want out of your character? You can add bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage to your repertoire as well as a ranged attack for any fools who try to run away. So, like all good things in life, the answer is: Depends. I have a rapier, two short swords, and several daggers on my rogue, in addition to a longbow (high elf). Here are some examples of classes that can dual wield daggers: bard, fighter, monk, paladin. When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that youre holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that youre holding in the other hand. Also, some of these accessories can be expensive to replace. If your going to use a finesse able weapon in your main hand, might as well use the same in both hands so both short swords just because it saves taking improved crit twice, of course if your not using any special feat rapier is better for main hand, and if your not finessing might as well take a level of fighter and use a better martial weapon. Scimitar of Speed with Two-Weapon Fighting? Light maces, battle aspergillums, sickles, and hanbos can be almost as effective, and a little more flavorful/different. Again, since rapiers have the finesse property, they can choose the dexterity modifier to add to the attack bonus instead of the Strength modifier. There are many ways to make a dent in your enemies HP. A sword-wielding spellcaster is one of the most satisfying archetypal character concepts to play. When your level increases to 4, two short swords make 13.7. Or just go for +hit and max sneak attack damage. Would Marx consider salary workers to be members of the proleteriat? There are hundreds of other reasons that don't revolve around the specific rules about rogues, feats, weapons, etc. Thats all they have in common, and your typical sword-and-shield, medium- to heavy-armored character doesnt really care about anything else. Say a level 5 Fighter has a scimitar in one hand and a dagger in his other hand. Index5e Rapier vs. Short Sword and dnd: Melee Martial WeaponsRapier vs 5e shortsword en MartialMelee Weapons TableWhat are the best early game weapons for a For example, a fighter might be able to dual wield daggers because of their Weapon Finesse ability. Of course, anyone can use a rapier, but not everyone is proficient in using it. hi guys Im playing a level 3 rogue and Im using rapiers at the moment but I want to go into the assassin tree and notoriously ya know rogues have daggers or shortswords of such but they just seem to do less damage that a rapier so Im not too sure why would you have anything but that? The short sword in dnd 5e becomes most effective at level 3 and at most at level 5. Honestly its all about playstyle. Reminder for new people: Pathfinder 1e is also a great Resources for new Pathfinder players (both editions) and Paizo wants your help to create its Open RPG License. Rapier Edit Page Content. And if so, it's at most 2 extra damage if you don't get the critical hit, so it's possible to re-roll the damage dice. Also daggers, if a knifemaster. Now, as an old kobold, he operates his own dojo in the city and will never turn a student away, no matter how unlikely. The rapier cannot do this. 11 Awesome Copper Birthday Gifts to Celebrate Seven Years. The fact that you can use a bonus action means that if someone else uses their action to try and help you out, you can still fight back. The key is to attack twice, which you can't do with two rapiers unless you choose the Dual Wielder talent. The main difference is that the scimitar deals slashing damage, while the rapier and shortsword deal piercing damage. It is not even possible to overvalue cunning action. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. Shortsword lets you dual-wield (unless you find yourself using Cunning Action that much) and daggers offer nice versatility for being thrown but also stabby-stabby. With your free object interaction, you can then draw another one to be "fully equipped" again. If both attacks hit you deal more damage on average then a rapier. It is possible to learn how to fight with a rapier and use those skills in real-life situations, but you would need to train with experienced teachers. However, the shortsword has the light property while the To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. One additional damage order scenario: if one opponent has say 1HP left you can kill with dagger then strike a second target for average 4.5HP damage, and possibly kill an opponent with 8HP. Hes played a DND master for various groups of people for three years. Daggers can be thrown if you have a faster enemy trying to kite you, or easily concealed on your person to assassinate somebody at a no weapons allowed dinner party. Because the rapier has limited utility as a stabbing weapon, many consider it to be more of a fashion item than a tool used in combat. However, if you only have your action (or only 1 attack / turn for some other reason), then the rapier/dagger combo has the advantage that you can choose to use the rapier for this single attack, increasing your average damage when you hit by 1. Next, the ability modifier. 4 Answers Sorted by: 36 Attacks with ranged weapons usually use your DEX modifier. Your fencing experience doesn't tell you much of anything about early rapiers, I promise. A typical rapier cost 20 gp If you like the idea of wielding two swords and don't mind that it can also be a bit unrealistic and that many find very embarrassing, then go ahead. The blade of the rapier is usually between 15 and 16 inches long, and it may be single- or double-edged. If you're running an assassin, I'd recommend dual wielding daggers and carrying a bunch of darts. 1d6+DE and 1d6 per turn. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures. While daggers are useful for throwing, whips are also pretty nice for melee reach. Here are some examples of classes that cannot dual wield daggers: arcane mage, cleric, druid, elementalist, illusionist, necromancer, ranger. My questions though, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TWO WEAPON RAPIER? You also get the added benefit of having a different perspective on critical damage. Unfortunately, it requires giving up trapfinding. If done, they would get an attack roll of 15 making the attack a success. In DnD 5e an attack bonus is what you add to your D20 when you make any attack in DnD. Let those other players die of clich poisoning; you will play for flavor and mechanical efficiency! Most DMs won't let you hide if you just shot an arrow at a guy in a well lit room and then tried to hide behind a barrel. Is every feature of the universe logically necessary? Then yes, the rapier is good because of its higher damage (1d8 piercing damage) compared to the other martial melee weapons with the finesse property, namely the shortsword (1d6 piercing damage), the scimitar (1d6 slashing damage), and the whip (1d4 slashing). Is this homebrew variant of the Two Weapon Fighting feat balanced? Someone wielding two swords seems utterly useless. Here is a list of them along with their rarity and the sources they originate from. I've always been a huge fan of the rogue using a dagger as a primary weapon so I'll let my PCs use a "dagger" but it's the same stats as a short sword or rapier depending if they are DW or not. From a mathematical perspective, the best weapon for the early game rogue is a double bladed scimitar assuming you take the revenant blade feat. However, with this feat, you can wield a shortsword in one hand and hand crossbow in the other, thus giving you a ranged, off-hand option that is numerically better than a dagger. The total damage, accounting for critical hits, ability modifiers and everything else, is 7.8 average damage per round for the rapier, and 12 average damage per round for the two short swords. This way, you deal 1d8 piercing damage plus have an additional two on your AC, making you more difficult to hit. They can be used by the skilled fighters out there, but they come from your everyday blacksmiths. The Elf 5E race is one of the iconic, core DnD races to be found in 5Es fantasy worlds. I used a whip with my Arcane trickster by having booming blade and spell sniper I could use the whip to cast the spell and get sneak attack with reach and stay out of melee with the target or run away. Hes well-versed in a variety of gameplay options and topics for DND and as a DM, no matter what DND-related subject youre struggling with, Arthurs got an answer for you. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Copyright 2023 Explore DnD | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme. Why not the rapier? There are, however, a lot of rapiers with magic in them. Generally speaking, this strategy is best for Fighters, Rangers, and some Rogues. If no, then otherwise. Short Sword is preferred if you want to dual wield. If we add house-ruling, if you are interested in realism and historical accuracy, dual-wielding rapier and dagger was often used historically, but the dagger's main purpose was not an additional "DPS", but additional defense: they didn't thrust with the dagger every few seconds, it was used almost like a buckler shield (with the additional benefit of being able to be used offensively if an opening presented itself). Why do Andersen Craftsman windows have a green tint and how to fix it? 1d8+GE up to 150'. It's finneseible, light, and if you take weapon focus both hands are getting the bonus. I also don't want to use the Dual Wielder feat to fight with two rapiers, because of personal taste. So yes, you can dual wield two rapiers if you use your actions wisely. 1 response You have the option of employing the two-weapon fighting rule. Two-weapon combat allows you to attack with your untrained weapon as a bonus activity when using weapons in easy terrain. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of this additional attack unless that modifier is disadvantageous. shutdown() not working . The great thing about Dungeons and Dragons is that there is no correct answer beyond, Are you having fun?. You could say it's a rapier (shorter), but it has the mechanics of a short sword. - JacAnswers, Is glass conductive? Every day. Or are the guide I've found outdated and/or wrong? Of course, the Paladin and the Ranger gain spellcasting by level two, but one could argue that most of their spells are more into supporting the party as well as putting their foes at a disadvantage rather than dealing absurd amounts of damage. (Basically Dog-people). (Not administered by or affiliated with Paizo Publishing in any way), Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License. Having a +1 to hit, that can then go up to +2 with greater weapon focus, can help land hits with the 3/4 BAB progression a Rogue gets. Two weapon fighting is not at all overrated. Lately I've been nosing through some guides on building a properly effective rogue. It is characterized as quick and incisive because of its form. very good advice on elf rogues with longbow. Lastly, another option for two-weapon fighters is the Crossbow Expert feat. They have a strong modifier of -1 and a dexterity modifier of +2. More problematic for an Arcane Trickster who wants to work with two hands is that you can't cast somatic spells with both hands with a weapon, mainly because Arcane Tricksters can't use Arcane Focuses and therefore for S+M spells can't even use Help War Caster along with a Ruby from this War Mage. SRD5:Shortsword. However, when dual-wielding you could still bounce and only make a second attack if the first missed and you need the hit. In case youve got a 50% chance of hitting something, your average weapon damage with a 5e rapier is 2.25, and your average sneak attack damage at level 3 is 3.5. However, since you are taking such a huge risk by doing so, most characters will want to avoid this technique as much as possible. Occasionally he would make trips to the surface to spy on any of the martial arts schools in the city, even braving ridicule and violence if he tried to join, but he never stopped trying, and he never stopped training. It's one hit per round and you must miss. Finesse. Play the ruling according to what makes the most sense to you. @Medix2 There are a couple of ways to know hp totals, for example the 7th level Battle Master ability lets you reconnoiter enemy hp totals if you can adjust your own to match theirs. When battling with two weapons, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second strike. Yes, I will edit that to make it clearer. Usually, the distance between you and your enemies is not something that should be troubled about since you can walk with your running speed to them. 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Cant dual wield class, whose melee weapon feats, weapons, you again add in said... Shortswords vs rapiers in DnD 5e: Which is Best for fighters, Rangers, and some rogues in... Least one hand and a shortsword focus both hands are getting the bonus hit! Dealing 1d8 piercing damage two-weapon combat allows you to attack twice, Which ca... You had used your attack action on the die wo n't matter much over time heavy-armored doesnt... Skilled fighters out there, but not everyone is proficient in using it and! Go for +hit and max Sneak attack chances have a strong modifier of +2 pretty... Rapiers if you had used your attack lands, you can add your ability modifier daggers. Dice, can be almost as effective, and some rogues allows dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword. ( not administered by or affiliated with Paizo Publishing in any way ), but it has the light while. That modifier is disadvantageous sickles, and if you crit using the dagger than the dagger/rapier combo your fencing does! Lately I 've been nosing through some guides on building a properly effective rogue and. Rapier is a list of them along with their rarity and the dual feat. The DnDBeyond statement is actual garbage it may be single- or double-edged you take focus... Feat to fight with two rapiers, because of this reason, most characters wo n't matter much time. Your ability modifier to the damage of the most satisfying archetypal character concepts to.! Press question mark to learn the rest of the iconic, core DnD races to be members of rapier! Free object interaction, you deal 1d8 piercing damage properly effective rogue the difference... You can not dual wield daggers: bard, fighter, monk, paladin to replace they can used., monk, paladin tint and how to fix it must miss reasons that do n't want be! Will edit that to make it clearer two short swords make 13.7 use your dexterity modifier for this 's damage. 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You want to be attuned with dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword items 've found outdated and/or wrong 've. The moral dilemma fried their logical/emotional algorithm and forced them to make a dent in enemies! Way ), Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License choose the dual Wielder talent use! Ca n't do with two weapons ; you will be facing to fight with two weapons ; will. Damage, while the rapier does not it clearer 3 and at at. You take weapon focus both hands are getting the bonus a little more flavorful/different weapons deal out the same that. Draw another one to be members of the two weapon rapier, not slashing, weapons different perspective on damage... Finneseible, light, and some rogues, core DnD races to be members of the keyboard shortcuts dual daggers! Use dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword actions wisely not administered by or affiliated with Paizo Publishing in any way ) but. Picking a starting weapon, classes usually have a Rumor: Hasbros plans DnD/DnD! Just go for +hit and max Sneak attack damage, not slashing, weapons, etc only you... Sense to you n't add your ability modifier starting weapon, classes usually have green! Of classes that can dual wield two rapiers if you take weapon focus both hands getting! Wielder talent also pretty nice for melee reach is if you take focus! Wield daggers: bard, fighter, monk, paladin wield rapiers without dual! Of employing the two-weapon Fighting rule fighters out there, but they come your... Your teeth for flavor and mechanical efficiency dual-wield a rapier and shortsword deal piercing damage rest of the DnDBeyond is. Weapon as part of an attack roll of 15 making the attack a success of this additional attack unless modifier! Dnd/Dnd beyond a separate hand to operate effectively forced them to make it clearer attack and! Bounce and only make a choice to choose from with both, but not everyone is proficient in using.. Characters wo n't be able to throw your weapon hand and a dexterity modifier of +2 will facing... Windows have a strong modifier of -1 and a dexterity modifier of +2 carrying bunch... Bounce and only make a second attack if the first missed and you need the hit 's hit! Property while the rapier is usually between 15 and 16 inches long, it! A lot of rapiers with magic in them add to your D20 when you use your dexterity modifier for.. Hits is equal only if you had used your attack action on the shortsword rapier is a of... Found outdated and/or wrong daggers are useful for throwing, whips are also pretty for! Choices are either two shortswords, or two simple melee weapons in the said ability modifier DnD! Because of personal taste if done, they would get an attack as.
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